TwilightStruggle短剧本介绍（2010-05-20更新）

psychokiller

美国要达到20+是豪华版规则中的描述。但我在CSW论坛里看到有说法认为应该按标准游戏的胜利条件。
soul 发表于 2010-5-1 08:01

可以給聯結嘛?
我察了CSW 沒有看到你說的看法..

soul

CSW——TS讨论贴#12759 14@676.k81aaYTU3Hi.82@.1dcfda60/13266]http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?[url=mailto:14@676.k81aaYTU3Hi.82]14@676.k81aaYTU3Hi.82[/url]@.1dcfda60/13266[/url]
更早的讨论贴在2007年（太深，还没挖）

soul

回复 22# soul

挖到更早的讨论，CSW-TS讨论贴#9784 13@676.k81aaYTU3Hi.140[/email]@.1dcfda60/10239]http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?[email]13@676.k81aaYTU3Hi.140[/email]@.1dcfda60/10239

By Mark MacLean

Ruhnke Late War Scenario

[indent]One note: though Willy Brandt is not directly mentioned in the C3i article, the card is removed in the Scenario set-up and must therefore be in effect (both logically and historically). [/indent]

According to an e-mail I had from Volko, this is correct.

Items of note on the victory conditions:

Sudden death victory for Control of Europe remains possible.Either side scores auto-victory at 20 VP.Either side may win by playing WARGAMES (assumes the player has at least 7 VP).

The last two despite language (if taken literally) to the contrary. Apparently what happened was the version published was not the final. Ignore the reference in SETUP to Soviet domination of Mid-East (i.e., the Influence dispositions are correct as given).

Mac
也就是说，晚期冷战短剧本的胜利条件：
控制欧洲的突然死亡胜利规则仍然有效；
任一方达到20分自动胜利；
任一方可以通过打出“战争游戏”牌取胜（假定该玩家有至少7分）。

psychokiller

也就是说，晚期冷战短剧本的胜利条件：
控制欧洲的突然死亡胜利规则仍然有效；
任一方达到20分自动胜利；
任一方可以通过打出“战争游戏”牌取胜（假定该玩家有至少7分）。
soul 发表于 2010-5-3 22:19

那個也不是標準勝利條件
應該說是第3個版本...

soul

回复 24# psychokiller

2009年豪华版规则10.3 VICTORY
10.3.1 Automatic Victory. There are several ways to achieve an
automatic victory in Twilight Struggle:
• The instant one player reaches a score of 20 VP, the game is
over and that player is the winner. NOTE: All VP awards (for
both players) that are scored during an event or scoring card
must be applied prior to determining automatic victory.
• If either side Controls Europe, that side wins when the Europe
Scoring card is played.
• Nuclear War: A player may also win the instant his opponent
causes the DEFCON level to reach 1.
10.3.2 End Game Victory. If neither side has achieved victory
of any kind by the end of turn 10, then every Region is scored
as if its regional scoring card had just been played (these new
VPs are added to the current score). Southeast Asia is not scored
separately: it is included in the Asia scoring calculations. Every
Region’s score must be calculated before final victory is determined.
Reaching 20 VPs does not result in Automatic Victory
during scoring at the end of turn 10; however, Control of Europe
does grant automatic victory to the controlling player, regardless
of scoring elsewhere.
Once all regions have been scored, victory goes to the player who
has accrued most VPs. If the VP marker is on a positive number,
the US wins; if the VP marker is on a negative number, the USSR
wins. If the VP marker is on zero, the game ends in a draw.

psychokiller

回复 psychokiller

2009年豪华版规则10.3 VICTORY
10.3.1 Automatic Victory. There are severa ...
soul 发表于 2010-5-4 00:31

2009年豪华版规则第12頁
Victory:
After Turn 10 final scoring or if US plays WARGAMES event,
US must have 20+ VP or Soviet player wins.

soul

回复 26# psychokiller

我发的帖子您没看懂么？Volko Runhnke在2007年10月就承认C3i 19期上的短剧本胜利条件写错了。而豪华版规则没有改正这个错误。

adamzs

soul兄真早

mebusw

回复 psychokiller

我发的帖子您没看懂么？Volko Runhnke在2007年10月就承认C3i 19期上的短剧本胜 ...
soul 发表于 2010-5-4 07:42

也就是说，还是应该按照“标准胜利条件“来玩是吧。什么”美国打出wargame时需要20+“的可以drop dead了？

soul

回复 29# mebusw

“wargame‘（战争游戏）牌的处理仍和标准规则一样，打出后送给对手6分，然后以分数正负判定胜负。

soul

回复 28# adamzs

今天休息。

mebusw

回复 mebusw

“wargame‘（战争游戏）牌的处理仍和标准规则一样，打出后送给对手6分，然后以分数 ...
soul 发表于 2010-5-4 10:06

按标准规则来的话，因为美国初始布局优势（支配2个区域，而苏联没有支配）和后期手牌向美国的倾斜，对苏联玩家挑战很大

mebusw

本帖最后由 mebusw 于 2010-5-4 14:55 编辑

一些补充：

though Willy Brandt is not directly mentioned in the C3i article, the card is removed in the Scenario set-up and must therefore be in effect (both logically and historically).

"Willy Brandt"，应该作为已生效的事件

The deluxe rules still list "The Eagle Has Landed" as the latest US space advancement. Formerly this would have been the end of the track, but no longer. Should that properly be "Space Station"?

因为新老地图版本不同所以太空竞赛名称不同的原因，太空竞赛的初始布局，美国方应该是在最后一格。这和我在TS_Player_Aid_v41.xls看到的是一样的，因此苏联起始是在倒数第三格bear landed，美国在最后一格space station （对于3rd版地图而言），美国没法再太空了...悲剧

mebusw

另外，见上图，加拿大起始也应该有2点

mebusw

TS_Player_Aid_v45.xls已经出来了，里面的晚期胜利条件仍然是：

soul

“为什么这样”，原因别问我，我也不知道。我只是把csw上讨论的结果告诉诸位。

至于为什么没有修正规则错误，csw上的玩家们也不清楚。至少有多人抱怨过TS的规则更新不如GMT其它战棋。

wargameroom为什么不改？我也不清楚。Randy Rippus积极推动补正，也许效率不高吧？

psychokiller

Hi XXXXXX! Thanks for trying the Late War scenario!

The 2009 Deluxe Edition Rules conditions are correct, with the sole exception that the Soviets do not dominate the Middle East at set up.

Note that the special scenario victory conditions only come into effect after Turn 10 final scoring or in the event of WARGAMES. Therefore, the following is also correct:

Sudden death victory for Control of Europe remains possible.

Either side scores auto-victory at 20 VP.

Hope that helps. Please send me a reply if further clarification is needed. Regards, Volko

soul

回复 37# psychokiller

这不说明豪华版规则还要修改文字么？

soul

回复 39# 过隙之驹

我压根就没说苏联主导的事情，一直在讨论短剧本胜利条件。

soul

这说明豪华版计分规则是对的，只是苏联在setup阶段没有dominate。
过隙之驹发表于 2010-5-5 14:06

你的头半句话是错的。